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Miller's Homemade Soap Pages |
A few questions on superfatting:
1. when do you add the additional oil? at trace? is there a specific amount of oil you should add? does adding almond oil or castor oil, for example, at trace, effect saponification?
2. another soap site claims that saponification is 90% complete at trace. i find this hard to believe. what do YOU say?
thanks!!!!!
linda z
>1. when do you add the additional oil? at trace?
This is a personal preference... some folks think the oil keeps its qualities better if you add it at the end when most of the saponification has taken place. Some others feel that it is more likely to cause possible rancidity issues later if added at the end if it doesn't blend in well. I personally like to add anything I can at the front end in case the soap decides to get thick quickly on me (fragrances sometimes do this), so I put all my fixed oils in at the beginning. If I were going to spike a batch with a bit of extra glycerin... I add that toward the end, but I rarely do it. I think homemade soap is already about 25% glycerin when you are done, so it doesn't really need more.
> is there a specific amount of oil you should add?
No... but if it's more than an ounce or two, I'd figure it in when I calculated the recipe (or most of it). I'm talking about the batch sizes I do... if your batch is teeny, an extra ounce could be a huge amount.
> does adding almond oil or castor oil, for example, at trace, effect saponification?
Probably, but it shouldn't make a huge difference, other than what I mentioned above... unless you put in a LOT.
Hi! I don't consider myself an expert on all this stuff... but I don't know if you can make a blanket statement about saponification... it depends on how well the soap traced, how much heat was used in the process, etc. All I know is that my soaps need to be aged a few weeks before I want to sell them to someone! :-) It could be that it is 90% done at trace... but I really don't know. I guess I'm not worried about knowing... as long as I know how to make good soap, at what percentage point it is saponified doesn't keep me awake at night! (I'm getting goofy here... don't take that as a personal comment on your question... I just think it's funny sometimes what people will argue about when it comes to soapmaking.)
I hope this helps... this is an area where opinions and preferences differ... in the end the soap usually comes out soap! :-)
Subject: Liquid Soap from Scraps
I have seen your website a couple times now over the past year. I was thinking about making soap a year ago but lived in a small apartment and just did not have the time to do it. (I did not have the nerve to do it yet either.) I hate to waste small pieces of soap and have heard advertised away to change the bar soaps into liquid. I just wondered if you knew what to use. I have been looking for that info on the web for a couple of days and I can not find the info. I think I am looking in the wrong spot or have gone blind from staring at the screen for so long. Could you help me, I would truly appreciate it.
Thank you,
Heather Youngren
Hi! Do you know that you are the third person to ask me this TODAY? That is weird. I'll paste in what I told one of them...
...I've answered this before in the Soapy Success section of the site... either on that page or on the rebatching page. You would remelt these in a similar way to rebatching soap but if you want it to be liquid, you have to add a LOT of water. Depending on how hard the chips are, you may want to moisten them and cover overnight to allow them to soften before melting them down. I'd probably do this in a covered roaster pan in the oven, but crock pot will work, etc.
Take a look on the soapy success pages and also at the rebatching page:
<http://www.silverlink.net/~timer/re.html>
The only problem with trying to make a liquid soap from soap chips is that it won't have the same texture as the liquid soaps that you buy. It will be more slimy and tend to make a firmer gel. The liquid soaps probably use potassium hydroxide in them instead of sodium hydroxide (which makes hard soap as opposed to soft). You can still play with this... but I just wanted you to know it's hard to get it to be like the kind you buy at the store which has a different caustic element and uses emulsifiers, etc.
Hello Kathy!
Like so many others who write to you, I am just starting this new hobby. I bought 'palm oil shortening' on a special order from a foodservice supply company. After I got the oil home, I noticed that the ingredients were soybean and palm. After calling the manufacturer, I know that the "palm" shortening is only 5-15% palm, and the rest is soybean. Will this still give my soap hardness, or should I keep searching for pure palm oil? I hope I didn't just buy 50lbs. of crisco. I know I could buy palm oil on the web, but it is so expensive when you have to pay shipping on top of it. What do you recommend?
Thank you in advance for your help.
One other thing, In searching for FO's and EO's, I found Camden-Grey to be cheaper than a Garden Eastward for many oils. Also, for buying 8oz. bottles of EO's and 4oz bottles of FO's, Snowdrift Farms had great prices.
Thanks for maintaining this awesome site...By using the information you've provided, I've had success so far!
Amy Potter
Your "palm oil shortening" will certainly be better than regular shortening, but not a substitute for regular palm oil in recipes. I would guess it will make a firmer soap than if you'd used regular all soybean shortening. You might use it in the Rachael's Tried and True recipe for the shortening. That is a good recipe as far as shortening ones go. It should make decent soap.
I do get palm oil mail order, but I only use about a pound for each recipe I make and it lasts quite awhile (in a 5 gal. bucket). I get mine from Shay and Company... but on the East Coast, Columbus Foods would be closer. You do pay shipping, but I figured out one time that it cost me about the same for the palm oil per pound (including shipping) as I was paying for the olive oil I get at Costco (local)... at least close. That changed my perspective on ordering it once in awhile.
love love love your sight I have become a soap making nut..... I can not help myself....tons of oil, lard, lye every where.... I have the luck of living by myself so there is soap curing everywhere...even have stashed one large batch at my mothers......I hope I can stop soon.. wellmaybenot....what to do with it all.....
well my question is about raw honey and the bees wax from the comb can the be used...? and when to add?? do I need to melt the wax from the honey...? your site has been a god send all the best to you and yours
You sound like someone who needs to apply for a business license and start peddling your wares! :-)
Actually... if you are going to put honey in your soap, it's good to put a little beeswax in with it to counteract its tendency to soften the texture of the finished bar. I wouldn't get too carried away though... a little honey and beeswax goes a long way. Now you are going to ask how much and I'm not sure. I don't use more than 2 oz. of beeswax for the batches that I make and post. Probably wouldn't use more than a couple of T. of honey either... that's just me. I would add this stuff to your base oils when you are melting them in order to get that beeswax to melt in. The honey will kind of sit on the bottom but soften. You can even toss a little bit of water in with it so that the honey will dilute and not be likely to scorch. It will also blend into the soap better if it's a little bit thinner when you add the lye solution and start mixing the whole thing.
Thanks for such a comprehensive Web site--I love some of your creative soap creations.
I tried my first "test" batch of soap over the weekend using the test batch recipe on http://www.angelfire.com/on2/mysoappage/recipes.html and just had a couple questions about the outcome:
1) I had trouble getting it to trace, but I see from your other "botched batches" e-mails that that's a common problem. I ended up letting the thicker stuff settle and soaked up what looked like 1/4" water off the top of the surface using paper towels. Then it traced and my molded soap looks great. Should the soap mixture always come out this watery?
2) At what point in the soap making process is it safe to handle the soap with your bare hands. I perhaps naively thought that once the lye and fats react, and after the soap has set in the mold that it should be safe to handle, but I got slightly "burned" when I unmolded the soap last night. Could this be a result of me taking the water off the surface of the batch?
Just one other thought--I'm curious what the chemical process is that's going on with soap making--how the fats, temperature control and lye work together so I can understand what I'm doing better. Can you point me to a page that you know of that may have this info.?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions!
- Heather
Hi! Thanks for your nice comments about the web page... I'm glad you've enjoyed it. :-)
I would not do this next time. You run the risk of blotting up some of your lye that might not have incorporated the first time around. It needs to be there. Next time you could heat it up and blend until it all becomes homogenous and then repour (rebatching). Be sure to save everything when soap separates.
I handle soap the next day when I'm cutting it without protecting my hands. My fingers can sometimes get a little bit "slippery" when I rinse them off. If I think there is too much lye there, I'll put a teeny bit of vinegar on them, rub it around and rinse off. It neutralizes the lye. If your soap was separated after pouring, you will have more free lye or tiny lye pockets present and this is much more irritating then fresh soap when everything goes well and it's gone through a gel stage.
I'm too tired to try to explain this, but if you can get ahold of either one of Susan Miller Cavitch's soapmaking books (the library might have them... and Amazon stocks them), she discusses this in detail. If you actually buy one, I highly recommend "The Soapmaker's Companion". I don't agree with every single approach there, but it is an EXCELLENT source of soapmaking information... inspires and good for reference. I'm not sure where to direct you on the Internet... take a browse through my links section (URL below... look under "Information") and see if I have a page noted that discusses the chemistry part. I don't remember (too much to keep track of).
I hope this helps a little.
Hello Kathy...
I am impressed that you are selling your soap over the internet. The last time I visited your site must have been 1998. I like the new look. Way to go to get mentioned in USA Today! I e-mailed the author to thank her for spotlighting our hobby. Told her your web site was more a comprehensive data base on soap making than the web page it started out to be. Probably the most comprehensive information source of all, considering the links, etc.
My old favorite recipe, 12 oz lye, 5 cups H2O, 3 L olive oil had to give way to a less convenient 18 oz lye, 7.5 cups H2O and 4.5 L oil when Red Devil was repackaged. Oh well, bigger batches!
My 'two cents' worth at this point is that I never add fragrance or herbals in the primary batch. I want predictability. I either use the basic soap or re-mill it. I always use the 'oven pot' method to re-mill.
Have gotten away from coloring my soap. The dyes take some of the 'sudzing' abilities out of the soap.
I was happy to read Doreen Johnson's posting regarding 1/4 ounce fragrance oil per pound. Nice to have a reference. That's about right for generously fragranced soap. My loaf pans make about 2 1/2 pounds (8 5oz bars) of re-milled soap. A vial (1/4 oz) of fragrance oil costs around $5. I use one vial per loaf pan. If I liked a certain fragrance, I would buy a quantity to get the cost down. After curing the re-milled soap, I wrap it in Saran or other plastic so the fragrance stays.
My favorite soaps are the ones with herbs. Dry herb leaves are ground in a coffee grinder until they are fine. Add just before pouring the re-milled soap into the loaf pan. Store-bought herbs can be expensive. Use home grown. I figure the type of person who is a soaper also grows their own herbs. If not, they can always trade soap for herbs if they know someone with a nice garden. About a tablespoon per loaf pan, unless you like really heavily herbed soap. Some people really do like particles falling out of their soap.
I have been unsuccessful producing translucent soap. I refuse to go buy a re-meltable chunk from the local soap and fragrance store to add my own ingredients to. I like your soap price (around one dollar per ounce). Good rule of thumb. As you know, fancy soaps can sell for much more in the boutiques.
Thank you for your web site.
Howard Lang
Eureka, Ca
Hi Kathy,
I e-mailed you a couple months ago with some questions, and you were so helpful I decided maybe I dared ask a few more.
How do you store your soaps before you sell them? Do you store each batch in a plastic bag? Does the scent tend to go away after awhile, and if so, how long does it take? When you package an individual bar for sale do you wrap it in plastic? I have seen some wrapped in plastic then a label put around it and I have seen some wrapped in plastic after the label was put around it and some with just a label and not wrapped. Which would you recommend?
How do you arrive at your price? I read on the net that one person took the cost of the ingredients x 4 plus packaging for retail and cost of ingredients x 3 plus packaging for wholesale. Those figures come up considerably less than any soaps I've seen for sale on the internet. Your prices appear to be at the low end, according to the internet prices I checked, but I figure out here in western North Dakota that would be about right. I haven't sold any yet, but today I took some to a store that sells North Dakota Products. I told the lady that my suggested retail price would be $3.50 for a 4 oz bar and $3.00 for a 3.5 oz bar. She adds 25% to the wholesale price, so I asked $2.80 and $2.40 per bar wholesale. We'll see what happens. I don't want to get too busy, but it would be fun to sell some, and I am already an "addict"! As far as packaging, I have designed a logo using the Paint program on my computer, of two pink flowers on a branch and call myself "Cherry Blossoms", since my nickname is Cherry. I've found some neat colored paper to print my labels on and I can get three wrap-around labels on one sheet of paper. I'm not an official business yet, but if I start selling some I will consider becoming one.
One more question. I call my "signature soap" Cherry Chocolate Swirl and I colored the oils pink, with Almond fragrance for the cherry, and use cocoa in some of the soap for the swirl. But I have not been able to get the chocolate color to go into the bar very far. I've tried pouring at a medium trace and a light trace and the color just doesn't go down into the soap. I used a knife to make the swirl. It is very pretty on the top, but it won't go down very far. Any suggestions?
This has gone on long enough. As you probably know, an addict is an addict, and I could go on a lot more about my soapmaking experiences, but enough is enough! I did add your address to my e-mail list in case I have any more questions, but I'll try not to ask too many too often. I check your web page often.
Cherry Thompson
From way out in western North Dakota, along Lake Sakakawea (which we natives refer to as "the river" as that's what it was before it was a lake.)
I used to put bar soaps in plastic bags after they cured for a few weeks, but now use a sort of plastic storage cabinet that has nine drawers in it (got it at Costco here). I can put a batch in each drawer and when the soap is still doing some drying out, I leave the drawer cracked open slightly for more circulation. I don't put it in the drawers until it's had open air for three to four weeks. This provides a semi-open environment so the scent is kept in while it still has a bit of air. Like this better. The scent seems to hold pretty well, but I don't usually have soap for longer than about 6 months. Also... I use a lot of fragrance oils and they seem to have more staying power than most essential oils.
You can package individual bars in any number of ways. What I prefer is to put a cigar label around each bar and slip it into a small ziploc bag at the time that I sell them. I don't wrap them up way in advance anymore... just when I box up an order or take the soap somewhere to sell. I like the bags because they can be opened on the end for sniffing. There are many sources for ziploc bags in various sizes on the Internet and you usually order them by the 1,000. The 4 X 4 inch and 4 X 5 inch work the best for the bars that I'm making now.
>How do you arrive at your price?
I just went by what was the "going rate" according to what I was reading on the forums ($1 per ounce retail), etc. and then dropped it down slightly. When I sell to people I know here, I end up selling it often for $2.50 a bar plus sales tax, but I should really charge $3. It kind of depends on where you live... "what the market will bear" is often the phrase to describe how much to charge! When I sell retail over the Internet, I charge $2 per bar... but your situation is a little different and sounds like it's a fair one.
I have a few swirling suggestions on the "Modern Procedures" page. You might try the "swirling in the pot" method, or pour part of your base color, some of the swirl color, and repeat that before running the knife through the whole thing. That way you get a couple of areas of swirl and not just on the top. If your mold is shallow the swirl in the pot before pouring might be interesting... just be sure you run your spatula in the pot all the way to the bottom and to the center about two times around the pot before pouring the soap.
I hope this helps! Your soap sounds so yummy... it's making me hungry. :-)
Good luck with your budding business!
Hi
I'm a sophomore in high school, and we're doing a project where a class acts like a soap company and we have to produce a 2 pound sample of soap. I would really appreciate it if you could email me back with the answers to some of my questions:
I would really really appreciate it if you could email me these answers as soon as possible. Thank you!
-Christine
Hey... I'm an OLD choir girl! Sing in the local symphony chorale ... alto. What part do you sing?
Looking down the list, I can see that you didn't read much of what I have posted before you wrote to me. In good conscience, I can't feed you answers that I know you can easily find by doing some research, but I'll try to direct you and answer the ones that would be harder to find. Let's take a look at them...
>Do you know how coloring and scenting the soap affects its ph level?
I don't really, but doubt it makes much difference. You would have to add a strong acid or alkaline substance to the already made soap to affect the pH all that much, and most colorings and fragrances are oil and wax based (or *should* be for cold process soap) ... don't think they have much impact.
>What kind of materials can be used to make a mold?
I think you can get some ideas from looking on the "Where to Find Ingredients" page (sure hope that's where the mold suggestions ended up) and also on the "Modern Procedures" page where I have pictures of the box molds that I use.
>What kind of equipment should I use to make a larger batch of soap?
Check the main soapmaking instructions on the soap index page (index.html) and also the "Modern Procedures Page"
>Do the properties of soap change between making a smaller-scale batch and a >larger-scale batch?
Not if you measure accurately and do it right. It's just harder to keep the temperatures up in a tiny batch and the texture might not be as good when it cools off too much during the blending and initial curing process (the first 24 hours).
>How can we make the soap float?
Whipping air into thickened soap will do it. This is really EASY to do when you have to remelt a batch and use a mixer to break up the lumps. Ask me how I know! :-)
>Is it harder to make glycerin soap?
Homemade soap (cold process) is already about 25% glycerin after you make it so I don't bother with glycerin soap. To me, it's a bigger pain in the neck unless you are just remelting a glycerin base... and why bother when it's kind of an inferior product (in my opinion)... it's just prettier to look at. I do have some instructions posted for doing glycerin soap from cold process shavings... look on the index page for that link for Clear Glycerin Soap. They are not my instructions, but it will give you a general idea of the process.
>How long does soap have to be cured? Can it be used before it's fully cured?
You will find this on the main page... I don't put gloves on when I handle the new bars... but it's more harsh on the skin when it's not fully aged. I'll let you find out how long that is.
>Around what final pH level should the soap be at?
You will not likely get a good pH reading on soap from the usual pH strips you have there, from what I've heard and read. You might get a pH of around 10 or 11 and that would be perfectly normal for REAL soap that is mild on the skin. The stuff you buy commercially that tests lower is often made from synthetics. I don't think it's worth messing with trying for the lower pH and if you put acids into your cold process soap before it's really "done" you are kind of interfering with the process that makes the soap... a harsh alkaline is necessary to work on the oil and fat molecules and turn them into soap.
>I would really really appreciate it if you could email me these answers as soon as possible. Thank you!
I hope this is soon enough! Please do some more reading and you'll feel more ready to actually do this in class... also, there are some good links in the information section of my soapmaking links page that you might check out.
Good luck! I hope you get a good grade and have soap that you'll want to use. :-)
Hi Charlie here again
I found that using those little tiny metal fold up blankets that the hikers use on long cold hikes works great for holding in the heat. Just wanted to pass this along. It really is a great insulator.
Charlie Ann
Dear Kathy, I am a beginner soapmaker from Costa Rica. Thanks to your advices and recipes, I have done two successful batches by now. I admire your generosity and the willingness to spend so much time helping all of us. Whenever I have a little spare time, I love to enter your website, which I found through Yahoo. Although I am very proud of my two batches, their PH hasn't got lower than 10..
I have waited for cure for about two months but PH does not get any lower than that. Can you help me with a special hint on that. Is there anything I could add? I have made the all veggie and the simple tallow. Thank you, I really appreciate your effort.
Thank you for such a NICE email! You are very kind. I'm glad you have enjoyed the page. I think you are the first person from Costa Rica that I've heard from.
I have good news for you... a pH of 10 on homemade soap is very common. It is nothing to worry about. I have heard that standard pH testing paper is not the best for testing homemade soap and often perfectly mild and wonderful soap will register somewhere between 10 and 11. Your soap is probably fine and since it has aged for two months, you should be able to use it. I would not worry about that pH reading or change anything. Some commercial "soaps" are said to have a lower pH, but most of those are not true soap, but detergent bars. Despite their claims, I have not found them to be anywhere near as mild and nice to use as homemade soap.
I hope this helps put your mind at ease. I never test the pH of my soap... I just let my skin tell me how it is after it cures.
Hello!
My name is Jessica, and I'm a sophomore in highschool. A major part of my chemistry grade this quarter is based on a 'soapmaking company' that my class is role playing. Our teacher gave us a basic recipe, but the rest of the research is up to us. I was hoping you could help us with some basic concepts. I read most of your webpage and it was a big help, but I still have some questions. First, here our the basic instructions our teacher gave us for a test sample:
We maintained the temperature of the lye in the water at 35 degrees Celsius, and the liquid lard at 54 degrees Celsius. We poured the lye into the lard, and stirred until it was a syrupy consistency. (This seemed to take forever, and I'm pretty sure we never let it get thick enough) We poured it into a paper towel lined cup and checked on it two days later.
So here are my questions:
-The pH of the 'soap' we made was almost 12. Common sense tells us this is way too high. What can we do to lower the pH?
-The soap we made wasn't hardened at all, it was the texture of frosting. I realize that the soap making process takes MUCH longer than we had to let the samples sit, but is it possible we just did something completely wrong? If not, is there something specific we can do to speed this up?
-What oils are absolutely necessary, and what different effects can be achieved from different kinds?
-Our teacher made a big deal about the fact that oils, colors, and fragrances change the chemical reactions that occur. Is this something we need to take into consideration when adding ingredients to our recipe?
-Also, our teacher mentioned that we have to make a mold that withstands the caustic nature of soap...from your page this didn't seem to have been a problem...is there anything we need to know about that?
Well, thank you very much for your time. Our objective is to produce a soap that is appealing to consumers as efficiently as possible, so any tips you may have for us would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks much,
Jessica
Hi, Jessica! You are the same age as my fifth child, Karen.
Anyway... let's get to your chemistry project. I hope I can shed a little light on some of your questions... I'm not an expert on this, but I have a few suggestions for you.
>We poured it into a paper towel lined cup and checked on it two days later.
Wonder why they used a paper towel... I would not have lined your mold with anything absorbent. Some butcher paper or even saran wrap would have worked okay.
In the first place, you are making an extremely SMALL batch. One of the problems with that is that it loses heat while you are mixing the lye solution into the fats. Probably some *gentle* warming while you stirred might have helped it to saponify better for you. It should eventually get its act together after a few days of curing though, unless it really separates in a big way.
A bit of warmth after pouring would have been nice also to get the soap to go through gel stage... something hard to do when it's such a small quantity. Putting your mold into a warmed oven for a few hours (with it turned OFF and a container of water is nice to raise the humidity inside the oven... reduces the tendency to form ash on top of the soap) would probably help the soap to go through the gel stage. This not only accelerates the saponification process, it makes soap with a much better texture. Soap poured into deeper molds and in a larger batch is more likely to gel on its own.
This whole pH issue is overdone in the first place, but that is a little high. There are probably two reasons for that... regular pH testing litmus paper is not very reliable for testing cold process soap. It always tests on the high side. Secondly, your pH is bound to be high right after making it because it is still completing saponification and there is bound to be free lye in your soap at the beginning. Try testing it again in a couple of days and after a week and compare the results. It is quite common for homemade soap to test near the range of 10 (maybe slightly higher), depending on how much superfatting was in the soap. This is perfectly fine and nice to use after curing for a month. You cannot match commercially made soaps that are actually "detergent" bars and not real soap with natural fats... their pH is going to be lower. Doesn't mean they are any easier on your skin. Nothing is so nice as well made homemade... all the natural glycerin is intact.
I think I covered this above. The texture you describe is soap that has not really "finished" yet. You could still warm it up if it's like this on Monday (if you have a warm oven to put it in... only heated to around 150 or 175)... when it gels, it can be pulled out. I'm not saying you need to do this, but it will speed up the chemical reaction and the soap should harden up more quickly after it cools. It may do this anyway... but could take a few days.
You can make soap from whatever natural fat you like, but some make better soap for human use than others. To see which oils provide what qualities to the finished bar, do some reading on the Design Your Own Recipe Page (URL below)... go down to the "Properties of Oils" chart. You'll find that very helpful in answering your question. Coconut makes great lather, olive is nice for its conditioning properties, etc.
Some ingredients will accelerate "trace"... others contribute to overheating. People who make soap or read about it, usually know what some of the culprits for overheating are... honey, milk, cinnamon and clove oils, etc.... But there are lots of additives you could use to make your soap more interesting and it would not change the reaction all that much... certainly no cause for alarm from your teacher. If you use a wax colorant such as a candle dye or a bit of crayon (look on the Design Your Own Recipe page for which ones work and which ones don't) it will not react with your lye in any way that I can detect. It's easier to melt these in with the oils/fats before you add the lye. A small bit of essential oil could be stirred in for scent when it thickens... maybe peppermint would be a fun one to use that you could pick up at a local drugstore. I've seen some essential oils like that one for sale in the medical/pharmacy section near iodine. Often you can find clove oil, cinnamon, peppermint and eucalyptus. You can get essential oils at the health food store also, but be prepared to pay a lot more per ounce. More selection though and you don't need very much to scent such a small amount.
Avoid aluminum for sure... BAD idea! Most plastics are fine... a box lined with freezer paper works well... paper cup or wax coated Dixie cup would be fine for a small amount. You can use any number of plastic packing trays from buying foods or what have you... if it looks like a nice size and interesting shape for soap... give it a try (I have a friend who washes Sheba cat food containers in her washing machine and uses them for individual bar molds!). You just need to set those on something that will keep them level when the soap is poured in. Certainly glass will not react with soap, but you have to think about getting your piece of soap unmolded, and something flexible or with a lining that you can pull out is much easier. Lots of soapmakers pour soap into pieces of lined PVC pipe and then after it is set, they push it out and cut into rounds... there are ALL kinds of things you can use for molds!
I hope this helps! If you think of it... let me know how it turns out for you. :-) I hope you get a good grade.
I'm writing from Australia and am about to make my first attempt at soapmaking. Your web-site is wonderful and I can't wait to get started, but one thing is puzzling me. Most people I know in Australia who have made soap use caustic soda in the recipe. None of them have heard of lye crystals (even my husband who has first-class honours in chemistry!). I've checked the dictionary, but the definition is vague. Is it an American name for caustic soda or something completely different? If it is different, can caustic soda be substituted for lye crystals? Thanks....Louise, Perth, Australia.
Hi! To my knowledge, caustic soda and lye are common names for the same thing... Sodium hydroxide, or NaOH. In England "lye" is sold as "caustic soda" so I would guess it's the same in Australia. If yours is 100% sodium hydroxide, you should be able to use it in the same quantity in the recipes I have posted as what we call lye.. "a rose by any other name?" :-)
Good luck on your soapmaking!
Thanks for replying to my Baby Soap question so quickly!
I have another question that you may be able to help me with. I have only been making soap for a couple of months. My soap seems to lack the rich thick lather of soaps I have purchased. One soap in particular delivers a large amount of thick rich lather that I want to duplicate. The label says it's made from "saponified olive, coconut, palm and castor oils in a goats milk base." My questions are:
Thanks for any help you can be.
Tami Anderson
You can check the chart on the Design Your Own Recipe Page and look at the qualities of the various oils ("properties of oils") and get a pretty good idea of which oils provide a lot of lather. I'm not the best one to ask about a particular recipe because our water is soft and it's easy to get lather from a bar of soap. The Sudsy-All Vegetable recipe I have posted on the all-veg recipe page is a good one and if you add an ounce of castor to that, or substitute a few ounces (maybe 4) of castor for part of the canola (you might want to recalculate the recipe if you do this, but for this small difference it probably won't matter to substitute... their sap numbers are slightly different). I would put the castor in at the beginning instead of trace... but that's just me.
Castor oil produces soap with a slippery silky kind of lather. It has its own quality. Coconut produces LOTS of large sudsy bubbles and palm makes good lather also... but finer than that of coconut. Olive is great for conditioning, but not really big on lather. The milk might make the bar creamier... I'm not really certain. I think it does... but not sure if it lathers any more than usual. Aging increases lather until the saponification process is complete (freshly poured soap doesn't do nearly as much lathering as soap that is a month old).
I hope this helps. Take a look at the Properties of Oils Chart that I mentioned and you'll have a better idea of what causes the lather to happen and which oils do what.
My question is in regards to layering soap with small chunks of soap, giving it a stained glass-type appearance. Why does the soap crack, and how can I prevent it from doing so? In the same way, when I use PVC pipe, two different sizes, for making, say, the citrus slice type of soap, the little pieces of orange soap "pop" out of the white rind soap after it has been sliced! I am using glycerin soap that is pre-made. Help!
Linda
I'm not really sure how to prevent this, but the following things might help...
Use fairly fresh soap for imbedding and maybe spray it with alcohol before pouring the new soap over it. Also, a higher water addition rate (such as what is recommended by Majestic Mountain Sage's calculator) in the new batch may help to soften the imbedded soap as well and make it adhere better?
Hallo! it's nice to have explored your Web Site, but would you please explain to me what glycerin actually is?
Glycerin is a by-product of soapmaking. When the lye (NaOH) reacts with the fat molecules, it forms two substances in the end... soap and glycerin. When you make your own soap, this natural glycerin is still in it and is what makes it so much easier on the skin than commercial soaps where the glycerin has been tapped off and used as a by-product. In use it is a wonderful emollient that actually soaks into the skin (one of the few that do that... lanolin is another). It is odorless, and when rubbed on the skin is light and slightly oily, but absorbs into the skin instead of creating an oily film on the skin.
The chemical equation (or expression) for glycerin is: C3H5OH3. If my reference is correct, the finished soap is actually about 25% glycerin and 75% soap.
I'm referring to The Soapmaker's Companion by Susan Miller Cavitch (great reference book.. one that I recommend to soapmaker's). Here's how she describes the chemical process:
During Hydrolysis:
1. The OH ion (from the sodium hydroxide) attacks the carbon in the carboxyl portion of each fatty acid, breaking off one fatty acid at a time from the triglyceride, then the diglyceride, then finally, the monoglyceride.
2. Each released fatty acid reacts with the sodium ion to make soap.
3. The OH ions react with glycerol (C3H5) to make glycerin (C3H5OH3).
I have been waiting to see your new soaps. They are great. (I'm the one that e-mailed you about swirling and my raspberry looked like it had raspberry pieces in it. Well, you should see my soap now. Your advice is great. Thanks.) Anyway, I wanted to ask you about your peppermint soap. Do you find that the scent fades with the essential oil? After about 3 months I have a hard time smelling the peppermint in the soap. I was wondering if you found that as a problem. Do you know what I could do to keep the scent to stay longer in the soap. I have heard that essential oils fade quicker than fragrance oils.
Thanks for all the information on your web-site. Especially Sweet Cakes. I bought some of their Masculine Musk and my husband like it. (I didn't care too much for it.) I also tried some of their Irish Springs (type) and what a GREAT clean smell. I think it will be a keeper. Tomorrow I plan on making Tranquil Sleep.
Thanks for listening to me.
Mona Whitney
>I have heard that essential oils fade quicker than fragrance oils.
That has been my experience. I have usually sold my soap soon enough that I didn't have unscented... but it does tend to fade (might be stronger inside when you start using it in the shower though). I've noticed this with many EOs (except patchouli!). A solution might be to get a good peppermint fragrance oil and mix the two (FO and EO) together. I think they use fixatives in the FOs and it will hang on longer in the soap than the essential oil alone. If you put too much peppermint in the soap trying to keep it strong, it's going to be painful to use! :-) I think Sweet Cakes has a nice peppermint or candy cane fragrance oil. Don't use Lebermuth's Candy Cane... a seizer!
I mixed Tranquil Sleep with something else and it's not my favorite, but my son's fiancé liked it. I also have a bottle (unsoaped) of the masculine musk since she raved on and on over it. Not my favorite either... like musk and beach mixed together. Glad your husband likes it... maybe it will have male appeal! :-) Haven't done the Irish Spring... I'll bet it will sell very well since so many guys love that fragrance. Will be a good way to wean them off the store bought stuff!
I have enjoyed your page like none other! I have been making soap for about a year now and am starting to place my wares in shops. It's terrific!
I have a few molds made of wood, similar to yours. I have been wrapping the bottom and sides (separately, of course) in shrink wrap, fitting it together and blow drying it. It works well, but is very time consuming. I was intrigued by your Formica lined molds and have considered doing the same to mine. I wonder if I could get away with with putting a peel n' stick tile inside instead? I am concerned that some tile materials might react with the lye.
I wonder if you or your husband has any thoughts on this.
Also, how do you cut your block into "logs"? The long rectangles that you put in the miter box.
Thanks so much
Elizabeth of Joshua Tree
I've heard of the shrink wrap method of lining molds... do you have to replace it each time or can't you just wipe it off between batches?
He's not here at the moment. I'm not really sure. If you have concern, you could run a bead of silicone along the seam between the wood mold and the tile and wipe it down so it's fairly smooth, but fills any crack or covers the seam (kind of like caulking a bathtub). I think the silicone will tolerate the exposure to lye pretty well. I had Ron put some along the seams of my box just to discourage the soap from leaking out between the bottom and side pieces that were stationary. You can get a tube of silicone at a hardware store, or probably at a pet shop that stocks aquarium supplies. What is the tile made of? Do you mean an actual ceramic or clay tile? As long as it won't react with the lye itself.
>Also, how do you cut your block into "logs"? The long rectangles that you put in the miter box.
Just with a ruler and knife at this point (not perfect). I show this on the Modern Procedures page below, but maybe I didn't describe it well enough... I thought I did. I don't remember what's on my page all the time.. there's too much there and I have to look it up myself! :-)
Theresa Simpson
You could use palm oil instead of palm kernel and it would be a little more conditioning on the skin. Palm kernel does much of the same for soap as coconut (lathering) and makes a hard bar. Using both in the same recipe is doable, but kind of redundant. You could also lower the coconut (or palm kernel if you choose to use that with palm) a little bit and raise the olive to make it a bit more conditioning. I don't have exact numbers, but you can to to the calculator at Majestic Mountain Sage and toy with the numbers until you get the right balance for the size recipe you want to make. I like to go for a 5% discount... or slightly more is okay. Maybe a good breakdown would be 30% coconut or palm kernel, 25% palm oil and 45% olive oil with an ounce or two of castor oil tossed in at light trace?
>so anyone that has a concession supply store would be in heaven.
That would be the same as the "Cash and Carry" I mention on the Where to Find Ingredients Page. They are a restaurant supply. They often have big containers of cooking oils and that's where I often get my coconut oil as well. Sure a lot cheaper if you can use that much! :-)
>do you only make 8# batches or do you double or even triple to keep up with demand.
I still make those smaller batches and just try to limit what I make to what I think I can do and not short the other aspects of my life (which I'm already doing!). You can make double batches if you like and use larger molds... that would speed up your production a bit. I usually make two batches in a session, but if I had more molds done, I could do more in one day.
One fragrance oil did this to me and it was Colorado Breeze from Sweet Cakes. Whew! Really got to me, but was okay once the soap cured. That stuff is strong! People are different and I've heard of some that had the same response to Nantucket Briar from SC but that one doesn't bother me.
I have a few questions hope you can help. I tried the jelly soap recipe from your page. It took 24 hours to gel. It cleans the dishes well but it doesn't lather, the water is just cloudy. Is this normal, or did I make a mistake in the making of it?
I purchased some stearic acid to try adding to my soap. I am unsure how much to add to a 1 pound recipe. When do you add it? Do you melt it with the fats [I think this would be the way to go] or do you add it at trace? Will it speed up trace?
Tell me, is it true, If I add cocoa to a recipe will the lather be a dirty brown colour? Also I read somewhere that stirring soap to much will cause the end result to be grainy and poor quality.
Thanks from down under
Anna Schmidt
I have not really used that jelly soap recipe much... are you speaking of the one provided by the lye company instructions on the main page? I think the lathering qualities depend on the base oils you used for your soap. For lots of suds, you need coconut or palm kernel oil in the mix. If your soap was lard or tallow based... it might not suds very much, but should provide cleaning power.
Stearic acid might speed it a little bit. As I recall, you only need a couple of teaspoons for a recipe the size that I provide on the site. I put it in (when I've tried it in the past) with the base oils so that it could be thoroughly melted into the fats... it's like a hard wax in texture. I believe there is an instruction for how much of this to use on the Majestic Mountain Sage site near where they list it in their online catalog... it only takes a little bit.
I used to think that stirring soap too much could cause separation, but don't any more. If you continue to stir though after it's hit trace and gotten thick, it might make the texture weird. Once it hits the pudding stage, you are best to pour it and not stir until the spoon stands up by itself (like some of the old instructions recommend!).
If you have much cocoa powder in the soap, it will affect the color of the lather, but I've not noticed it causing any stains on anything... just makes for murky looking bath water! ("Gee... I must have been dirtier than I thought!")
Happy soaping down under! :-)
First off I want to thank you for the wonderful and informative website!! I stop by several times a week.
I do have a question regarding colorants for soaps. I notice throughout your site that the use of crayons is mentioned for coloring your soaps and in your list of ingredients for your soap that you sell you list wax colorants. Is it ok to use crayons for coloring soap I plan to sell? or are there certain wax colorants I need to use. I've had great success with paprika, turmeric, cinnamon, and dried mint, but I've noticed here locally ( it may be a regional trend) brighter bolder colors being used in homemade soaps...mostly blues and reds and greens.
I'm still in the testing stages of my soap making and haven't had any (knock on wood!) failures yet. I do have some awful looking rebatch though....don't think that's up my alley :)
Thanks for an advice you can offer :)
Terri Wagner
On the wax colorant issue... it depends on who you ask! Some folks are purists and get hot under the collar about crayons and wax candle dyes, but I've been using them for a long time and don't notice any problems. I think I read that the colors in wax color chips are the same kind as what folks use to dye their hair. Since I'm using such a small amount and in a product that does not stay on the skin, but is washed off, I've not been very worried about this... but that's just my opinion. Some crayons will NOT work, so if you use those, read the info Rachael provided on the Design Your Own Recipe about which crayons do and don't yield good color in cold process soap.
Could be wax colorants... also, you could try ultramarines and oxides. The Pigment Lady on the Internet sells kits that you can get and try those things out. They are powders that you mix with oil or water before adding into your soap. Various shades can be achieved depending on how much you use and I'm not much of an expert on that! They are tiny particles of mineral that suspend in the soap, so do not change with exposure to lye. Take a look at her page and see what she has. She also sells USDA approved cosmetic colorants that you could try. I've not tried those yet. I have a link for the Pigment Lady on my soapmaking links page.
When deciding how to color your soaps, you should go by your own tastes and preferences as well as consider the market to which you are selling. Some folks will shy away from anything that has much color or any artificial colorants in it and other folks really don't care... they just want soap that is pretty and smells good. You be the judge.
Hi - maybe I'm cheating, but so far I have had good success with adding goats milk powder to the soap mixture around the time it starts to trace in my vegetable oil soaps. I use a whisk to mix it in and it seems to work really well. I am ending up with a really creamy bar that is great for shaving my legs. Is there any danger to this - is there something I don't know that everyone else does ??? Kate
There are many ways to incorporate goat's milk in the soap. If that is working for you... I would stay with it! :-)
Thanks so much for replying - I thought I'd let you know how much goats milk powder I'm adding - I add half the recommended amount of powder for making milk in relation to the amount of liquid in the soap batch when the soap traces lightly, using a whisk to incorporate it. Works most of the time, with most recipes. Still trying to understand the chemistry which is so exciting. Feel like Merlin some days. Kate Hults
I just wanted to let you know that after reading your section on modern procedures last Saturday, I purchased a stick blender and think it's just about the best thing since sliced bread. I've made four batches of vegetable based soap with it and am amazed at the amount of time and work it saves, not to mention the improved texture of the soap. There has been no ash which I had been having a frustrating problem with. Thank you for introducing the stick blender. I for one am very grateful. You have a great web site.
Janice Sager
Why, thank you! I'm glad you tried it and found it to be as wonderful as I did. I can't take credit for introducing it... the idea was out there and I read about it, then posted and pushed its "wonderfulness". Wish I'd thought it up myself... but I didn't. Sure makes a huge difference in all the ways you mentioned. Really makes soapmaking a lot more fun and saves your poor arm.
Thanks for the nice email... you happened to catch me online catching up on emails from the past two days!
Happy soaping!
Your on site soap making is a wonderful guide for all of us. My problem, and I am still new to soap making, is this... my recipe calls for 74 ounces of tallow and it makes approx. 15 bars about 3 1/2 X 4 1/2 inches. I want to make 15 different types and add different scents. Can I do this with each mold, and what is the way to measure the frag. and additives? Can this be done I hope you can assist me.
thanks for your time.
Charlie Ann
It might get kind of thick by the time you do that last one, but you might be able to mix them in a small bowl and then do each batch individually. Some people even stir the scent right into the soap in the mold cavity for small samples, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to color that way. The coloring will be the trickiest part. If you're using ultramarines or oxides that are mixed with a small portion of water first, they would probably be the easiest... or a spice like paprika.
One good thing about tallow soap... in my experience it tends to stay a bit more pourable when it's hit trace. You'd have more trouble trying this with an all vegetable kind unless it had a bit of something like soybean oil in it... that seems to keep it a bit thinner and workable as well.
Good luck! I hope it cooperates and you can manage to do them all... should be interesting. I would guess that the fragrance might be added in drops (not sure how much... you'll have to figure this one out based on how much you would use for a whole batch and then divide that by 15. Then... figure out how many drops are in a measurement like a teaspoon, or 1/4 tsp... that sort of thing. You'll probably be using a matter of drops in the end).
Kathy,
Just a little note to let you know I LOVE YOUR SITE!
I have been making soap and lotions at home for family and friends, but your page has inspired me to take it to the next level and start selling it!
I also wanted to tell you that I had used a knife and miter saw/box for cutting my soaps until I met my husband. He is in construction, and one day I started going through his tools. Viola! He had an 8" sheetrock knife (sheetrock guys sharpen them with sandpaper after purchasing), and it slices sooo easily through soap, in the miter box too! Just lay the edge down on top and PUSH! You've got a perfect, smooth, straight cut! Works awesome with the soap boxes he built me based on the ones on your pages! They are stainless steel with either a fiberglass or wooden handle and run around $6. at Home Depot and Lowes.
I did have a sales question; I've seen that you use labels on the soap you sell from your web site, but do you follow the
International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients and FDA guidelines as far as listing your ingredients, and have you ever had any problems when it comes to labeling? BTW-your labels are beautiful, this being said by a graphic designer and marketing specialist!
Sincerely,
Anji
i am new at making soap....really new! what does trace mean?
thank you! cindy davidson
I think I mentioned this somewhere, but not sure where! "Trace" means that as you stir the soap, the handle of the spoon will leave a small wake where you pulled it through... a slight indentation or line. Also, if you drop soap from a spoon onto the rest in the pot, it will bead up a bit. To take it further... if you lift the spoon or stick blender out of the soap (turned off, of course!), it will be nicely coated with soap... like pudding.
There are stages of trace... thin, medium and thick.
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